Talk:Devil Gene/Archive I

This is the first archive of Talk:Devil Gene.

Opposition

Could we add and opposition section, stating something about Angel, Jun Kazama and Asuka Kazama? --RaiJinX

Yes, but try to keep it simple, since we don't have that much info about it, other than that the Kazama's a spiritually strong people and seem to have a "soothing" effect on Devil. --Hecko 23:07, 9 September 2007 (PDT)

Um, ok... --RJ

Just so you know, Jinpachi does choose to fight Devil Jin for his "control" of his devil gene. --visitor22:10, 17 February 2008 (PST)

RaiJinX - ♥煩悩の紙和本脳野上♥ TALK - 08:11, 18 February 2008 (PST) But Devil Jin's ending isn't canon now is it?

It isn't?? Jaewonnie 14:37, 16 March 2008 (PDT)

Anyone know why Heihachi doesn't have the Devil Gene? Or is this part of the storyline not released yet? And anyone know when the curse began? Jaewonnie 14:41, 16 March 2008 (PDT)

Hecko Xtalk - blog - anime rants 15:12, 16 March 2008 (PDT) Back in the day, there was no Devil Gene, and everything started with Kazuya. Then came Tekken 4, which is the worst Tekken ever both in terms of how much Namco screwed up the game and how much the screwed up the story, because then, the Curse of Devil had turned into the "Devil Gene", but it still started with Kazuya. Then came Tekken 5, and Namco figured they would scew us over some more, and made everything begin with Jinpachi as well as give the notion that it could have begun even sooner. As for Heihachi, we don't know with absolute certanty whether or not he has the Devil Gene, all we know is that no demon of any sort has ever taken advantage of it and possessed him. But you have to ask the question, how many normal humans have survived all the explosions and physical punishment that Heihachi has survived?

Uhh...I don't know. Maybe Heihachi is an undercover Jack =P Well now I'm confused. Jaewonnie 17:19, 16 March 2008 (PDT)

Azazel started the devil gene

Should we add a section about Azazel.. Tekken 6, in scenario mode if you play with Devil Jin against azazel, in they small interlude it reveals that azazel started the Devil Gene, so should he be consider a "Devil"... user: Teriko

I'll have to look into that, but if it is true, then yes, we should. --Hecko 07:04, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes because azazel has a link with jin's mind, he stated this when telling lars alexanderson why he brought war to the world. Jin thought that if he killed azazel it would end the devil gene and the mishima bloodline. User: Teriko

Kazama bloodline/ Devil is refer to as Devil Gene/ Devil is a life form

The section kazama blood was made to review all people who possess it, and have been shown to use it regardless of it being non canon. Tekkenpedia is base on all tekken source not just the game series. Everything should be made revelant about the kazama blood in the tekken series, meaning games, spin off, movies, and books, everything about tekken. User: Teriko

The article is about the Devil Gene, not the Kazama Bloodline. A section about everyone in the Kazama family, just listing them without purpose, is in no way relevant for this specific article. This is why it was rewritten as simply a "Kazama Bloodline" section. --Hecko 12:27, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

(EDIT) As for the removal of non-canon, it is because it bears little to no significance to how the Devil Gene works. Consider the nature of the article; that Angel appears as a character seperate from Jun in Tekken Forever holds no relevance to information concerning the Devil Gene whatsoever, since we don't know how she would affect it in the continuity of the comic. Also, for the TTT part, since we know Angel is part of Kazuya's soul (as per her Japanese T2 bio), Angel would not be considered an "external force", but would rather qualify as suppression through force of will, which is already described in the article. --Hecko 12:43, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

In the tekken japanese and english game story the character Angel, has not been shown to have a "internal force" or will within kazuya, in the japanese and englsih story the character was express as a "external force".

Many website such as sunlightyellow.com, and tekken zabatsu.com whom has no affiliation with namco has Infer The character Angel's role to be a "internal force" or will within kazuya, because the character Devil was express as a "internal force" or will within kazuya. The japanese and english versions of Tekken 1 and Tekken 2 never officially had written out bios or scripts, nor did they have narrative prologues. ruling out the fact that the story was "express" through images and cameos, english and japanese fans wanting to know about angel and devil begin to make and build inferences and conclusions base on the characters expressions and roles in the story later websites where build by these fans and there work to collect as much source they can on angel and devil. After the events of Tekken 3, Tekken 4 came out explaining the character Devil's role in the story, as a curse or a genetic that pass down through the mishima bloodline known as the Devil Gene. Namco has not yet explain the Character Angel's role in japanese and english the story. In the new Tekken 6 scenario mode, it has a prologue that summarizes Tekken 1-6, at the begining of the summary its doesn't mention angel or devil's role in the story, later in the summary they mention Devil's role as the Devil Gene, but where is Angel in the summary. "Again" namco has yet to explain Angel's role in the japanese and english game story. This give the point that Angel has no bio in the japanese and english game. Name one official japanese or english namco website that holds the official bio of angel? User: Teriko

I can't, since all have been removed when they got to old. Now, you name one official Namco Japanese or English website that holds the official bio of anyone as they appeared in Tekken 3. Doesn't exist anymore? Guess that means the T3 bios are not official then either. How about any official site for Tekken 4? That should be easier since it's a newer game and for a newer console. What's that? No official website for Tekken 4 containing character bios exist either? Guess the Tekken 4 bios aren't official either then.

Now, here comes a really funny thing I want you to think about. Look at the official Japanese Namco website for Tekken 6 and look at any character bio. Now go look at the character bio for the same character on the T6 subpage on sunlightyellow. Did you notice how they're exactly the same? Now, try doing it for Tekken 5. Again, exactly the same. It was the same thing a few years back when Namco still had a T4 site. So what does this mean? It means that sunlightyellow recorded the official information as published by Namco (which it btw has been doing since 1997). So while the site is created by a fan, the information is derived from Namco. The site doesn't use any information found within the games whatsoever.

Now, I obviously can't say with 100% certainty what exact page or source it has for its information since all old Namco websites have been removed, but doesn't it strike you as the least bit odd that a page containing a bio, which has remained unchanged for over a decade, is confirmed to contain true information by a game released 12 years later if it was all just inferral by fans and without any shred of official information..? Or are you now gonna claim that the dude who adds the information to the site is psychic?

Yes, sure, there -does- exist a possibility that it's all just inferral and the guy who added it was SUPER good at guessing which is why everything coincidentally was correct, I can't deny that. However, the possibility of the opposite being true, that the bios are recordings of information then released Namco. And then there's of course the third, much more unlikely option that it was all fan-speculation, but Namco figured it sounded pretty good, and then decided to make it canon. (EDIT) http://www.bandainamcogames.co.jp/cs/list/tekken2/devil.html OH SNAP!! PWNED!! --Hecko 23:25, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not talkin about what true and what's not true, I'm talking about angel role in the story. I'm not saying that sunlightyellow is wrong. You see according to your imformation, your articles says that"before the concept of the Devil Gene, Devil and Angel was spiritual". I quote: now that has change, Devil is now a genetic blood. Now one could say that the concept of Angel may have change too. example according to Tekkenpedia imformation, the devil gene is generally assumed that the gene allows for a person to have a symbiosis or a parasite/host type relationship with a malignant spirit refered to as "Devil" as well as having it (the gene). Therefore kazuya have to have the genes to connect with a benign spirit refered to as "Angel" as well as having it (the gene). According to Tekken 4 When G corperation found kazuya's body, they descover the genes of a devil not an angel. So when the Devil Gene was first introduce to the tekken series, it throw out the theory of angel being apart of kazuya's soul. User: Teriko

LULZ!! "I'm not talkin about what true and what's not true". If you aren't, then why make such a big point of that sunlightyellow is only fan-theory and not anything official and thus can't be trusted?

Anywho, exactly what happened with Angel and how she now fits into the retconned story (if she exists in it at all) is completely unknown since she's never re-appeared and no further explanation given. However, fact remains that in Tekken 2, her official Japanese bio states that she is inseparable from Devil, thus making her as much a part of Kazuya's soul as Devil was/is. --Hecko 01:48, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about the japanese version, I am only referring to the US english version. Tekkenpedia is an US english website, so it only go by the US english Tekken source. There is no Tekkenpedia japanese, there is only tekkenpedia english..... Anyways, since the concept of the Devil Gene was introduce, angel being apart of kazuya's soul is non canon to the present story, even in the japanese version. Because Devil is now refered to as the devil gene, the concept of Angel is unknown to the present story, because, remember according to your imformation before the Devil Gene, it was considered spiritual thus making angel apart of kazuya's soul, but that all change when later the entity known as Devil was reveal to be a gene or genetics, because of this concept angel is not apart of kazuya's soul in the present story of tekken. User: Teriko

User:Faeli34 Wow this is a interesting convo

Devil is refer to as the Devil Gene/ Devil is a life form

Tekkenpedia is a US English Website, which means we write in the English language. It doesn't mean that we ignore all the facts of information that are provided by the original Japanese version of the games.

Also, I believe you've sorely misunderstood something. Devil is not refered to as the Devil Gene, the two things are completely different matters and Kazuya's T4 ending makes that abundantly clear. Devil is an independent existance that lives within Kazuya and Jin, while the Devil Gene is a genetic mutation/anormality. While one thing leads to the other becoming possible, they aren't the same thing. Similar to HIV and AIDS; while contracting HIV will inevitably lead to getting AIDS, they aren't the same thing. --Hecko 04:39, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

I get what you are saying, with the HIV/AIDS concept. You are saying that Devil's existence independently lives within kazuya and jin, while the devil gene is a mutated genetic within them. According to your imformation, this means that the entity known as "Devil" lives within both kazuya and jin, like a spirit living in two people, while having the mutated gene itself. But that's not case, "Devil" is referred to as the Devil Gene, let me break it down and explain:

KEY WORDS Meanings

• Devil Gene, a Gene is a unit of DNA that control the development of a single characteristic in an individual.

Dr. abel also call the devil gene, the devil cell in julia Tekken 4 ending.

• Devil Cell, a cell is a small mass of living matter that is made of protoplasm, includes a nucleus, is enclose in a membrane, and is the basic unit of which all plant and animals are made up.

The Devil Gene is what gives the Devil cell its characteristics, and the devil cells is a mass of living matter, which forms a living organisms/ life forms, which makes a devil living organism or a devil life form. Hecko you better pull out your tekken 4 game manual, because according to the story, kazuya , after being resurrected he offer his body as a research material to determine the true nature of the devil that reside within him. Kazuya's goal was to unify his (two selfs) meaning Devil is apart of kazuya's well (being) into one. When Heihachi stumble upon G corporation he discovered a project known as Devil-Human Integration Program that was base on kazuya's remains. Heihachi finds out that G corporation was trying to make a new life form, they was trying to combine human cells with devils cells, Dr. abel also explains this in julia's ending. All this explains is that Devil is a life form that was born within and apart of kazuya, not a spirit. This also explains that Devil Jin and Devil and Jinpachi act as three individual devils, having the Genes of different characteristics (appearances), Nature (personalities/characteristics),. Also in Devil Jin Tekken 5 prologues it states that "when the Devil Gene Take over Jin Kazama". This sentence is clearly referring Devil as the Devil Gene taking over and controling jin's mind. In Devil Jin's article on this website, it states that Devil Jin represents Jin after the devil Gene takes over him. Again, it is referring devil (evil spirit) as the devil Gene. Like I said above, this concept, throws out angel being apart of kazuya's soul, which is non canon to the present story.

KEY WORDS: Meanings

• Reside, to live permanently and continuously : DWELL, 2: to have its place : EXIST, or always was.

• Being, the state of having life or existence, 2: a living thing.

• integrate, to form into a whole : UNITE.

• Nature, the basic character of a person or thing. User: Teriko

User: Faeli34 Wow teriko and Hecko, u guys are really smart. So the theory above explains kazuya's tekken 4 ending. At the first part of kazuya's T4 ending, Devil said to Heihachi "So you were with him after all, my half...". Devil could have been referring to jin as being his son or being apart of him through blood and genes. Example: kazuya was intimate with Jun. So not only kazuya and jun conceive a child, but so did Devil. Which he was referring to Devil Jin being his half as his son or being apart of him through blood and genes. I like this disscusion. But can add this, the Devil-Human Intergration program was base on kazuya. Which the name Devil-Human is a catch phrase of G Corperation refering kazuya being half Devil half Human. Now according to G Corperation, they was trying to build a new life form by intergrating the devil cells with human cells. Animals cells is made up of humans, dogs, cats and birds and so on. Plant cells is made up of trees, sunflowers, grass and so on. In the tekken story Devil cells could have been made up of devil-like organism. This could also lead up to the origin or the starting of the Devil Gene. Azazel could have been one of those living organism or Devil life forms that starting the Devil Genee. This is highly possible because of Azazel and Devil jin small interlude in the Tekken 6 scenario mode. When you play as Devil Jin on the stage of Azazel before fighting against Azazel, in the interlude Azazel thanks Devil Jin as his child for bringing war and negative energy to world to resurrect him. I barely could see the words on my small TV. But Devil Jin responded negative because Azazel responded " how dare you defy me, I am the one who created you". Afterwards Devil jin responded he will absorb Azazel's power. You guys will have to check it out.

I'm just gonna point out key issues really quickly:

• In Kazuya's T4 ending, Devil says (when seeing Jin): "So you were with him after all, my half...", i.e. half of Devil resides within Jin. If Devil was not a spiritual being, but simply "born" from the gene, Devil's statement would have made no sense whatsoever.
• The word translated in the ending as "my half..." is "waga no hanshin (我の半身)", which more specifically means "half of my body". As you can see, Kazuya is very much not missing any body parts, so the only explanation would be for Devil to have been an independent spiritual being living within Kazuya's body (which would make it possible for him to lose half his body), cause if he was just a gene, then Kazuya's body would equal Devil's body, which we can infer that it doesn't as; a) that would make him dead; b) he wouldn't be able to transfer half of himself to Jin.
• How exactly Devil transfered half of himself to Jin is explained in T2 and T3, which emphasises this part of the Devil Gene article: "The original concept, before the coming of a "Devil Gene", was not entirely scrapped though, and has in some cases been incorperated into the new continuity."
• From the Devil Gene article: "[...]as well as having it (the gene) control the transformations of one to the other." So "when the Gene takes over," it means that a character is forcibly transformed after which the devil spirits within them are the dominant consciousnesses. This is a process caused by the Gene, but that doesn't suddenly equate Devil as the Gene. Thinking this would be a fallacy. Again, look at Kazuya's T4 ending which shows that the Gene and Devil are two different things; Devil is able to take control of Kazuya's body without the actual activation of the Devil Gene, and likewise, the entire concept of conscious activation rules out that Devil = Devil Gene.

The was probably more, but I'm tired and have work to do right now. --Hecko 08:19, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes you are right, the word my half is translated as wago no hashin which means "half of my body" and your right about kazuya didn't have any body parts missing. But This doesn't mean that Devil is reffering to the spiritual half of himself. "So you where with him after all, my half..."When Devil said my half, he was referring to jin as being half of his body as his son and being apart of him Through Blood And Genes not literally his body parts. Example: Kazuya was intimate with Jun, so not only did Kazuya and Jun conceived a child, but so did Devil. Which Devil was referring to Devil Jin being half of his body as his son and being apart him Through Blood And Genes. Example 2: Hecko if you conceive a child, then that child is your half, your sperm, your Genes, your blood, Which is half of your body. So that's what Devil means when he refer jin as "my half" or "half of my body". Devil= Devil Gene.

I am about to give you some source from, Tekken 4 telling you it was reveal that Devil and kazuya is one of the same. . Let's go back to the Tekken 4 manual book. In the introductions story, it states "Kazuya had been resurrected in G corporation's research facility. After his resurrectiom, kazuya had offered his body as a research material to determind the true Nature of the Devil (Nature means the basic character of a person or thing.) Which tell the reader that Devil is a living being within kazuya Not just as a living spirit) that resides within him. (Reside means to live permently and continuously: or always was.) Which tell the reader that Devil lives within kazuya. He was always was within kazuya from birth. Kazuya's goal was to unify His Two Selves into one. (his two selves means that of the same person. meaning that Devil is kazuya's other self and Kazuya is Devil's other self. Selves (plural) means a special side of a individual's character (alter ego). Which let's the reader know that Devil and kazuya is one of the same. According to Tekken 4 the G Corporation descovered Devil cells within kazuya,.... this explains that Devil is a life form. This also makes "Kazuya packing a deal with the Devil non-canon to the present story of the tekken games series, like in Tekken 6 scenario campaign prologue in the summary of Tekken 1 and 2 it did not state that kazuya sold his soul to the entity known as Devil to exact revenge on his father heihachi. Basically this brief paragraph came from tekken 4 story word for word.. all I did to this paragraph was break down the key words and meanings between the sentences and lines, telling you to read between the lines. This is a technique of understanding literature. User: Teriko

Wow teriko know his knowlege lol user: Ace jackson

First of, entire first section, wtf? I've split up all the problems and issues with the first section alone, because there were a lot.

1. If he had been refering to Jin like you say, he would've used "my offspring", "my son", "my child", or something similar. He would never have used "my half"; in fact, I doubt any sane person would refer to their child as half of their body.
2. When Devil says "So you where with him after all, my half...", the "you" and "my half" is refering to the half of Devil that he lost at the conclusion of T2. The "him" is the part that refers to Jin; Jin isn't the topic of the sentence. This is extremely straight-forward English, I'm surprised that it would confuse someone as well-versed in understanding literature as you claim to be.
3. If you listen to what Devil says in Japanese, a more direct translation would be "So you, my other half, really -were- dwelling inside this thing..." so it's preeeeetty obvious that "my half" is not refering to Jin (who is instead refered to as "this thing"), but quite literally to the other half of himself that he lost at the conclusion of T2.
4. Quote by Devil as said to Heihachi in Kazuya's T4 ending: "Twenty years ago, I lost a part of myself when you nearly killed me. Now, I'll retrieve what is rightfully mine from him [refering to Jin]!". He is stating, straight to your face, that he's a spiritual being. The quote also completely discredits your weird argument about Devil refering to Jin in this way because he's his offspring and whatnot since he gives the exact cause the 'split' (part of him was lost when he nearly got killed by Heihachi; it had nothing to do with genetics, conceiving children, or anything thereof).

Secondly, you should seriously consider not trying to pump up your sentences to sound more intellegent, cause (no offense) you aren't pulling it off too well. In fact, you're aren't pulling it off at all; you're doing your own arguments more harm than good.

• "Let's go back to the Tekken 4 manual book. In the introductions story, it states "Kazuya had been resurrected in G corporation's research facility. After his resurrectiom, kazuya had offered his body as a research material to determind the true Nature of the Devil (Nature means the basic character of a person or thing. Which tell the reader that Devil is a living being within kazuya Not just as a living spirit) that resides within him. (Reside means to live permently and continuously: or always was.) Which tell the reader that Devil lives within kazuya. He was always was within kazuya from birth."
  • Red part: Yes, "nature" -can- mean "the basic character of a person or thing", however, the definition of "nature" that fits -this- context is "the essential qualities or characteristics by which something is recognized". So it doesn't tell the reader "that Devil is a living being within kazuya Not just as a living spirit." What it -does- tell, however, is that Kazuya wants to know exactly what Devil is and what powers Devil has (and most likely how he can use them himself).
  • Blue part: Yes, we know that Devil lives within Kazuya, we've known this since the very first Tekken game. However, nothing in what you wrote in any way implies that Devil was within Kazuya from birth, as opposed to possessing him at the age of 5 as suggested in the first few games.
• "Kazuya's goal was to unify His Two Selves into one. ([...]Selves (plural) means a special side of a individual's character (alter ego). Which let's the reader know that Devil and kazuya is one of the same.
  • You say one thing, and then the complete opposite. A self is a consciousness of ones own identity; two selves means two seperate consciousnesses, in this case Kazuya's and Devil's. So sure, you -can- say that Devil and Kazuya are one and the same, but only in the sense that they share the same body which we've known since the first Tekken. They still have two seperate consciounsnesses, so you've actually said nothing to help your own case.
• According to Tekken 4 the G Corporation descovered Devil cells within kazuya,.... this explains that Devil is a life form.
  • Oooooor it just explains that Kazuya possessed the Devil Gene, which is something we already know. It says nothing about Devil himself.
• This also makes "Kazuya packing a deal with the Devil non-canon to the present story of the tekken games series, like in Tekken 6 scenario campaign prologue in the summary of Tekken 1 and 2 it did not state that kazuya sold his soul to the entity known as Devil to exact revenge on his father heihachi.
  • The prolougue has various minor changes and parts it skips, e.g. never mentioning Kazuya's hatred and rivalry with Lee Chaolan, who has a great influence on the kind of person Kazuya became as an adult, not showing Devil losing part of himself in T2, not showing Jin's encounter with Devil in T3, getting the timeline for Kazuya's ressurrection wrong (several years as opposed to a few days, as said in T4), not showing Kazuya transforming into Devil at the beginning of T5, showing Jin and not Devil Jin as the person who defeated Jinpachi, etc. etc. etc. In fact, the video never shows Devil, at all, for any amount of time, so if you are going to believe everything the video depicts to the letter, then Devil doesn't even exist.

All in all, while the Devil Gene has been introduced, Devil is still, and has always been, a spiritual being. There's been no solid evidence (thus far, at least) to suggest otherwise, while a lot of evidence supports it. --Hecko 19:20, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

this is part 2 :Archive II